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  • July 5, 1862
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, July 5, 1862: Page 18

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Provincial.

the brethren down in th minds of the general public a merely as body meeting for feasting and social pnrposses . There was an endeavour making to disconnect Grand Lodge with the freemasons ' Tavern ; the wish had been strongly expressed that it should not be so connected . Truly , at Freemasons' Hall , under present regulations , there was a curious mixture of purposes— -for there were transacted the business proceedings connected with Masonry , religion , architecture , the drama , and other interests sometimes jostling on the same night . This hacl struck many men ' s minds , and there was a visible growing determination to o-et rid of the tavern connection with the Craft . It was now

four years since a resolution had been agreed to by the Grancl Lodge , directing the Board of General Purposes to take tins subject in hand . Nothing practical had been done for three or four years , and now there was a strong revival of the feeling to got rid of all tavern connection , and do it ont of hand . Bro . JACOB , P . M ., had not the least doubt that a sufficiency of money could be obtained by voluntary contribution if an appeal were madeand good lans brouht ' forward

, p g . Bro . LA CROIX , P . M ., advocated the policy of dissociating , ss far as they conld , Masonry and taverns . " The progress of JMasonry had undoubtedly been cheeked by that unfitting connection , ancl the importance of the Craft lessened in the minds of the general public . Bro . SitEJ . i . r , P . M ., said he had already paid a great deal of attention to this subjectand formed an inion and proposal

, op of his own . He could not lose sight of the important fact that , in connection with any improvement and extension of a public property , it was right to infer that the large ; - the sum laid out the larger was the increase to be expected to follow . Iu his proposal he did not anticipate any very great outlay ; he only wished to go to about £ 30 , 000 instead of the £ 18 , 000 , and with that extent of outlay he considered the Craft could carry out

the plan put forward by Bro . Wilson ; the plan of that brother , however , did not include a large room for them to dine in , ancl so far it ivas deficient . There was no reason for borrowing money from any source whatever ; according to Bro . Wilson's statement , the plan could be perfected in about four years , in . which time £ 12 , 000 ivould be gained to the fund in hand . They Iiad a right to suppose that their revenue ivould increase

, Their charities were going on very well , and a great amount of money had been voluntarily collected last year . They would have the means of paying- for a new and improved building , before it was completed , by means in the holding of the Boarcl of General Purposes . liro . Wilson ' s plan was the most feasible he had seen . He did not know why the Temple ancl all the

existing premises should not he thrown into the improvement proposed ; though they might not pull all down , they might convert it . He agreed with what Bro . Stebbing had said , that what new buildings fchey wanted should be on the West side . The tavern now produced £ 800 a-year , and it required a little more accommodation . Let the Craft enter into this , and then Bro . Shrewsbury or any other tenant ivould gladly pay them seven per centfor their He hoped the

, money . subject would be carefully and calmly considered ; and as it was likely the question would be alluded to at their coining provincial meeting afc Havant , he hoped the brethren ivould show more interest in this important matter than thev appeared to do at present . He most decidedly objected to tiie plan put forward by the committee of the Board ' of Generol Purposes . Bro . HiTLBERT , W . M ., 995 , said the question with him ivas

how far they could trespass on the Funds of General Purposes . He agreed with Bro . Stebbing as lo the appropriation of the £ 18 , 000 in hand , and that it would be wrong to entrench upon the charities . Yet to carry out a suitable improvement they were quite capable of spending another £ 18 , 000 ; and if they did want more money , let them go to tho Craft and see if they could not get it . It was always much better to afc once effect a

thorough good improvement instead of patching up for a time . He was anxious the Craft should stand well with tho outer lvorld , and should therefore like to see a building raised worthy of and consistent with the position of Masonry , and befitting the English Masons as those of the first nation . The Craft , he was sure , ivould only be too glad to come forward ancl show ivhat love they had for their Order . If he was askedreall

, y lie should be ashamed to take a foreigner over their Grand Lodge property . Were it not for the words Avritten up , ho should take the place to be some auction rooms , or something of that kind . He thought they ought not to stop at £ 18 , 000 , and to obtain more he felt convinced that every province in the kingdom would lend a hand .

Provincial.

Bro . LA CROIX , P . M ., spoke to similar effect . He saw the impolicy and impropriety of patching- up old buildings , but there was no occasion to hurry to a conclusion ; he hoped the subject ivould be well discussed , and the different points thoroughly brought before tbe Craft . Bro . HASLEIIAJI , P . M ., entirely endorsed Bro . Stebbing ' s opinion , as far as in what they spent nothing should be taker from the charities . If the Masons of the country wished to

see their home property of a more attractive appearance , let them loose their purse strings . Bro . STEBBIXG , in the course of a further address , said lie should make a point of writing to some of the leading brethren of London , and suggest the appointment of a committee , and he thought it would not be made in vain . It would be much better to make a general appeal to the Craft than attempt to spend more money than fchey possessed . Ho was afc issue with

Pro . Sherry as to spending the excess of their income . They were always sure to require all the money they could possibly get in any way for the purpose of benevolence and charity . They occasionally augmented their charitable funds by grants from the income they derived for the Fund of General Purposes . Henceforward lie expected there would be a necessity for a great increase of their benevolent funds . They were called prosperous in that department now , but they did not elect all

the applicants nor relieve all those in want . They did not elect more than one out of two or three applicants either in the Annuity Funds or the Schools . Ancl what ivould be the case thirty years hence ? They were at present supporting the obligations of a past generation ; the wants of persons who went into Masonry from a quarter to half a century ago . They ivould have four times the number of children ancl old men in another thirty years timeand they miht not then find Masonry so

, g nourishing as it was at the present time . It was appalling to think what might be their requirements then . The number of lodges attached to the Craft hacl doubled since 1833 , and there were now coming into them all grades of society . Opinions varied much—all human institutions were unstable—and instead of being doubled again , there might be less in another thirty years . They should therefore take the greatest care of their funds now , and what so glorious was there to apply them to as

to charity ? It might be requisite to distribute funds among many now prospering in their lodges , but who mightbedifferently situated iu years to come , and children ( yet to bo begot by those who were now Masons ) would have to be taken care of . If they did not have the care and forethought ho impressed upon them , they would be like a man ivith £ 500 a-year and a large family to maintain , suddenly losing his position and salary , and becoming helless . He urged upon the Craft to bo content with

p comfort and respectability of appearance in their buildings , and not waste a large amount in seeking to carry out gaudy decoration and palatial views . If there was that liberal feeling to do what was suggested by voluntary subscription , well and goocl ; but he deprecated tho idea of taking a single shilling from their excess of income over expenditure , or their charity funds . Grandeur , he must admit , was a noble thing , but

welleducated children and old men and women in comfortable quarters , was a more stately thing to contemplate than to have even twenty of thoso gaudy edifices put together , if the poor and destitute remained in want ancl uncared for . After some further discussion , the W . M . said lie thought he might assume two positions to have been sufficiently arrived at by the lodge on the subject under discussion : —First that it was not expedient that more than £ 18 , 000 should be spent out of

the funds in hand ; and , secondly , that if any greater sum should bo required to carry out an approved plan on a superior scale , that the additional money should be supplied by voluntary subscriptions from the Craft . They had still left out one important item , that was , the comparative merits of the plans already suggested . There were different suggestions , including that of Bro . AVilson , the Board of General Purposes Committee , and that promulgated by the MAGAZIXE . They could not go further

into the discussion that night , but he hoped it ivould be continued another time . There was no hurry ; perseverance and energy ivere most required , and he believed Hampshire men had no lack of that . He must say he hacl the greatest possible respect for Bro . Stebbing and his opinions , but perhaps he could not exactly follow him in the details of his argument . Bro . Stebbing had laid it down that any alteration of the old premises was unadvisable . He thought they ivere in a better position than if they were going to start with a new erection . They already had property of value , and a respectable income arising from it . He

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1862-07-05, Page 18” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 16 July 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_05071862/page/18/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
Untitled Article 1
Untitled Article 2
ADDRESS TO OUR READERS. Article 3
Untitled Article 5
Untitled Article 8
THE GRAND LODGE PROPERTY. Article 8
CLASSICAL THEOLOGY.—LVIII. Article 8
KABBALISM, SECRET SOCIETIES, AND FREEMASONRY. Article 10
ART AND MANUFACTURE. Article 11
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 13
NOTES ON LITERATURE, SCIENCE, AND ART. Article 14
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 14
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 15
METROPOLITAN. Article 15
PROVINCIAL. Article 15
SCOTLAND. Article 20
Obituary. Article 21
COLONIAL. Article 21
KNIGHTS TEMPLAR. Article 21
COLONIAL MASONRY. Article 21
MASONIC FESTIVITIES. Article 23
NOTES ON MUSIC AND THE DRAMA. Article 23
PUBLIC AMUSEMENTS. Article 23
THE WEEKS Article 24
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 27
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Provincial.

the brethren down in th minds of the general public a merely as body meeting for feasting and social pnrposses . There was an endeavour making to disconnect Grand Lodge with the freemasons ' Tavern ; the wish had been strongly expressed that it should not be so connected . Truly , at Freemasons' Hall , under present regulations , there was a curious mixture of purposes— -for there were transacted the business proceedings connected with Masonry , religion , architecture , the drama , and other interests sometimes jostling on the same night . This hacl struck many men ' s minds , and there was a visible growing determination to o-et rid of the tavern connection with the Craft . It was now

four years since a resolution had been agreed to by the Grancl Lodge , directing the Board of General Purposes to take tins subject in hand . Nothing practical had been done for three or four years , and now there was a strong revival of the feeling to got rid of all tavern connection , and do it ont of hand . Bro . JACOB , P . M ., had not the least doubt that a sufficiency of money could be obtained by voluntary contribution if an appeal were madeand good lans brouht ' forward

, p g . Bro . LA CROIX , P . M ., advocated the policy of dissociating , ss far as they conld , Masonry and taverns . " The progress of JMasonry had undoubtedly been cheeked by that unfitting connection , ancl the importance of the Craft lessened in the minds of the general public . Bro . SitEJ . i . r , P . M ., said he had already paid a great deal of attention to this subjectand formed an inion and proposal

, op of his own . He could not lose sight of the important fact that , in connection with any improvement and extension of a public property , it was right to infer that the large ; - the sum laid out the larger was the increase to be expected to follow . Iu his proposal he did not anticipate any very great outlay ; he only wished to go to about £ 30 , 000 instead of the £ 18 , 000 , and with that extent of outlay he considered the Craft could carry out

the plan put forward by Bro . Wilson ; the plan of that brother , however , did not include a large room for them to dine in , ancl so far it ivas deficient . There was no reason for borrowing money from any source whatever ; according to Bro . Wilson's statement , the plan could be perfected in about four years , in . which time £ 12 , 000 ivould be gained to the fund in hand . They Iiad a right to suppose that their revenue ivould increase

, Their charities were going on very well , and a great amount of money had been voluntarily collected last year . They would have the means of paying- for a new and improved building , before it was completed , by means in the holding of the Boarcl of General Purposes . liro . Wilson ' s plan was the most feasible he had seen . He did not know why the Temple ancl all the

existing premises should not he thrown into the improvement proposed ; though they might not pull all down , they might convert it . He agreed with what Bro . Stebbing had said , that what new buildings fchey wanted should be on the West side . The tavern now produced £ 800 a-year , and it required a little more accommodation . Let the Craft enter into this , and then Bro . Shrewsbury or any other tenant ivould gladly pay them seven per centfor their He hoped the

, money . subject would be carefully and calmly considered ; and as it was likely the question would be alluded to at their coining provincial meeting afc Havant , he hoped the brethren ivould show more interest in this important matter than thev appeared to do at present . He most decidedly objected to tiie plan put forward by the committee of the Board ' of Generol Purposes . Bro . HiTLBERT , W . M ., 995 , said the question with him ivas

how far they could trespass on the Funds of General Purposes . He agreed with Bro . Stebbing as lo the appropriation of the £ 18 , 000 in hand , and that it would be wrong to entrench upon the charities . Yet to carry out a suitable improvement they were quite capable of spending another £ 18 , 000 ; and if they did want more money , let them go to tho Craft and see if they could not get it . It was always much better to afc once effect a

thorough good improvement instead of patching up for a time . He was anxious the Craft should stand well with tho outer lvorld , and should therefore like to see a building raised worthy of and consistent with the position of Masonry , and befitting the English Masons as those of the first nation . The Craft , he was sure , ivould only be too glad to come forward ancl show ivhat love they had for their Order . If he was askedreall

, y lie should be ashamed to take a foreigner over their Grand Lodge property . Were it not for the words Avritten up , ho should take the place to be some auction rooms , or something of that kind . He thought they ought not to stop at £ 18 , 000 , and to obtain more he felt convinced that every province in the kingdom would lend a hand .

Provincial.

Bro . LA CROIX , P . M ., spoke to similar effect . He saw the impolicy and impropriety of patching- up old buildings , but there was no occasion to hurry to a conclusion ; he hoped the subject ivould be well discussed , and the different points thoroughly brought before tbe Craft . Bro . HASLEIIAJI , P . M ., entirely endorsed Bro . Stebbing ' s opinion , as far as in what they spent nothing should be taker from the charities . If the Masons of the country wished to

see their home property of a more attractive appearance , let them loose their purse strings . Bro . STEBBIXG , in the course of a further address , said lie should make a point of writing to some of the leading brethren of London , and suggest the appointment of a committee , and he thought it would not be made in vain . It would be much better to make a general appeal to the Craft than attempt to spend more money than fchey possessed . Ho was afc issue with

Pro . Sherry as to spending the excess of their income . They were always sure to require all the money they could possibly get in any way for the purpose of benevolence and charity . They occasionally augmented their charitable funds by grants from the income they derived for the Fund of General Purposes . Henceforward lie expected there would be a necessity for a great increase of their benevolent funds . They were called prosperous in that department now , but they did not elect all

the applicants nor relieve all those in want . They did not elect more than one out of two or three applicants either in the Annuity Funds or the Schools . Ancl what ivould be the case thirty years hence ? They were at present supporting the obligations of a past generation ; the wants of persons who went into Masonry from a quarter to half a century ago . They ivould have four times the number of children ancl old men in another thirty years timeand they miht not then find Masonry so

, g nourishing as it was at the present time . It was appalling to think what might be their requirements then . The number of lodges attached to the Craft hacl doubled since 1833 , and there were now coming into them all grades of society . Opinions varied much—all human institutions were unstable—and instead of being doubled again , there might be less in another thirty years . They should therefore take the greatest care of their funds now , and what so glorious was there to apply them to as

to charity ? It might be requisite to distribute funds among many now prospering in their lodges , but who mightbedifferently situated iu years to come , and children ( yet to bo begot by those who were now Masons ) would have to be taken care of . If they did not have the care and forethought ho impressed upon them , they would be like a man ivith £ 500 a-year and a large family to maintain , suddenly losing his position and salary , and becoming helless . He urged upon the Craft to bo content with

p comfort and respectability of appearance in their buildings , and not waste a large amount in seeking to carry out gaudy decoration and palatial views . If there was that liberal feeling to do what was suggested by voluntary subscription , well and goocl ; but he deprecated tho idea of taking a single shilling from their excess of income over expenditure , or their charity funds . Grandeur , he must admit , was a noble thing , but

welleducated children and old men and women in comfortable quarters , was a more stately thing to contemplate than to have even twenty of thoso gaudy edifices put together , if the poor and destitute remained in want ancl uncared for . After some further discussion , the W . M . said lie thought he might assume two positions to have been sufficiently arrived at by the lodge on the subject under discussion : —First that it was not expedient that more than £ 18 , 000 should be spent out of

the funds in hand ; and , secondly , that if any greater sum should bo required to carry out an approved plan on a superior scale , that the additional money should be supplied by voluntary subscriptions from the Craft . They had still left out one important item , that was , the comparative merits of the plans already suggested . There were different suggestions , including that of Bro . AVilson , the Board of General Purposes Committee , and that promulgated by the MAGAZIXE . They could not go further

into the discussion that night , but he hoped it ivould be continued another time . There was no hurry ; perseverance and energy ivere most required , and he believed Hampshire men had no lack of that . He must say he hacl the greatest possible respect for Bro . Stebbing and his opinions , but perhaps he could not exactly follow him in the details of his argument . Bro . Stebbing had laid it down that any alteration of the old premises was unadvisable . He thought they ivere in a better position than if they were going to start with a new erection . They already had property of value , and a respectable income arising from it . He

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