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  • Sept. 19, 1863
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  • MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES.
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The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine, Sept. 19, 1863: Page 8

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    Article MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. ← Page 2 of 5 →
Page 8

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Masonic Notes And Queries.

KNIGHTS HOSPITALLERS . [ We transfer to our columns , from Notes and Queries , another interesting paper on this subject ] : — " I shall take advantage of a personal appeal , addressed to me hy your correspondent AN OBSERVER , to express my great disappointment that the strictures of HISTORICUS , SCRUTATOR , ancl others , have failed to draw from the

Society calling themselves the "Illustrious and Sovereign Order of Knights Hospitallers of St . John of Jerusalem , Anglia , " any tangible proof or evidence of the justice of their claim to be considered a legitimate branch of the famous Order , whose title and attributes they have assumed . MAJOR POUTER and AUTIQUABIUS , in taking up the gauntlet , have indeed declaimed in lofcy

language , but have produced nothing in support of their cause beyond what their Synoptical Sketch has previously put forward ; with what amount of claim to credit , HISTORICUS and SCBUTATOII have sufficiently demonstrated . MAJOR PORTER , in his reply to HISTOBICUS , has not condescended to enlighten us on the reasons that induced him to change his opinion of the legitimacy of the

soi-disant Langne of England expressed in the History of the Knights of Malta .. He considers it enough for us to know , that , although an opinion adverse to their claims did once prevail in his mind , yet , having further considered the subject and held converse with some leading members of the Langue , he had become so satisfied with the justice of those claims as to enroll himself

a member of the Society ; and even make amends , in the second edition of his work , for untoward remarks regarding them expressed in the first , & c . With your permission I will explain , as briefly as possible , why I feel so much disappointed that the gallant MAJOR has not been more explicit and communicative on the subject . In the year 1858 , the Langue did me the honour to nominate me their Commissioner , to lay before the Lieutenant of this Magistery and Sacred Council of the

Order of St . John , in Rome , an application on their part for some recognition by tho supreme authority of the Order . I was , at the same time , presented with a copy of the Synoptical Sketch , aud instructed b } " - the Grand Secretary to consider it a text-book for general reference ; and a vade-mecum , from whence to g lean all the information concerning the Langue and its claims that I might

require in dealing with the S . Council . In the course of my diplomatic doings I was frequently questioned as to the antecedents of the Langue , and more especially as to the authority on which their pretensions to be considered legitimate were founded . Being totally ignorant of everything concerning the body of which I was the representative , and finding the Synoptical Sketch quite

insufficient to furnish any satisfactory reply , either to myself or to my interrogators , I was driven in my perplexity to apply to the late Sir Richard Broun , the Grand Secretary of the Langue , as well as other and distinguished members of that fraternity , for some evidence and A'ouchers for their claims more respectable than what I coulcl derive from the brochure above mentioned . Sir

Richard ' s reply may be thus condensed : —He had no proofs to produce , and despaired of procuring me any ; that from 1835 to 1858 , he had been trying to make himself acquainted with the earl y history of the Langue , but without success ; that after tbe death of the Grand Prior Sir Robert Peat , in 1837 , he ( Sir R . B . ) discovered that tho documents connected with the revival of the

Langue were scattered about in many hands , and , as he feared , for the most part lost or destroyed ; that possibly some might be in possession of the family of the " Agent General" employed by the ( soi-disant ) French Capitular Commission , viz ., a tailor , named Currie : some , again , had passed away with the late Mr . B ., ci-dwant Grand Secretary ; and some might be , probably , found with a distinguished literary member of the Langue , & c * In short , I was given to understand that I must not expect

anything more presentable than what the Synoptical-Sketch- afforded . Your readers will , therefore , imagine how eagerly I looked for the proofs—so powerful , efficacious , and convincing in his case—that MAJOR PORTER had been so fortunate as to discover ; but which Sir Richard Broun ' s efforts for more than twenty years , with all his experience and advantages as Grand

Secretary and principal working member of the Langue , toback those efforts , had failed to bring to light . The negociations in which I had the honour to figure as Commissioner broke down entirely ; but I think the Languewill do me the justice to allow , from no fault of mine . I regretted the catastrophe then as I do now . As to one cause of tho failure , I will say a few words in reply to

the observation of ANTIQUARIUS : that " the Roman Council was quite as willing as the English Chapter ,, that an amalgamation of the respective bodies should take place . " AXTIQUARIUS is ignorant of the principal cause of such willingness . It was because the S . Council unhesitatingly received for truth the assertion , put forth with unblushing effrontery , passimin the Synoptical

, Sketch , and other publications of the Langue—endorsed , by the Grand Priors , men of note and position , who presided at their chapters , reiterated in their ' Declaratory Resolutions '—impressed upon me , their Commissioner , by repeated instructions from their Grand Secretary , as a powerful argument in my dealings with the S . Council in their behalf , and solemnly averred in an address to

the-S . Council itself , from the Chapter of the Langue , dated from ' St . John ' s Gate , Olerkemvell , 14 th July , 1858 ; ' and signed on the part of that Society by Dr . James Burnes , 'Preceptor of Scotland , ' & c , President ; Sir Richard Bourn , Bart ., ' Grand Secretary ; ' Thomas Troughear Williams , ' Knight of the Golden Spur , Count of the Lateran , Chancellor , Grand Cross of St . John of Jerusalem ; ' J . A . AVilson , 'Knight of the Legion of Honour ,

Knight of the Golden Spur , Grand Cross of St . John of Jerusalem , Commendator of Quenyngton , and Sub-prior of Clerkenwell : ' lhat the lapsed corporation of the 4 th and hth Philip and Mary had been solemnly revived , and that the English Langue had been legally constituted a corporate body by certain oaths , de fideli administratione , taken , before Sir Thomas Denman , Lord Chief Justice of

England , in- open court , b y Sir Robert Peat , as Grand Trim ; $ fc , fyc . I will hero candidly confess , that my knowledge of the law of lapsed corporations was not sufficiently profound to detect the absurdity of this audacious statement ; and it may easily be imagined that the information on the subject possessed by the German and Italian commanders , composing the S . Councilwas not superior

, to mine ; so , for reasons that in no way concern the present discussion , they were for a while disposed to look favourably upon the proposal . * However , shortly after the negociation commenced , the magisterial secretary was deputed to visit England to inquire into thatand other pleas advanced by the League , as claims for recognition ; and the unhappy result was , that

immediately on the return of the secretary to Rome , the negociation itself came to an abrupt termination . I have had many opportunities afforded me of examining the records , preserved in the Cbancellerie of the Order at Rome , that concern the appointment of the famous Commission of Paris ; its rise , labours , decline , and final extinction , with other documentary evidence , fully

bearing out the account given of it by your correspondents HISTOBICUS and SCRUTATOR . It is a curious fact , not mentioned by any of your correspondents , but which alone would be sufficient to nullify all the acts of the soi-disant Capitular Commission to whom the Langue owes its existence , that there was not a single Knight of Justice , with one unfortunate exception , and but an insignificant number of Knights of Devotion and Grace , among those who declared themselves a permanent Cotn-

“The Freemasons' Monthly Magazine: 1863-09-19, Page 8” Masonic Periodicals Online, Library and Museum of Freemasonry, 21 July 2025, django:8000/periodicals/mmr/issues/mmr_19091863/page/8/.
  • List
  • Grid
Title Category Page
THE RIGHTS OF VISITORS AND MASONIC TRIALS. Article 1
"LE MONDE MACONNIQUE" AND "THE FREEMASONS' MAGAZINE." Article 3
THE MYSTICAL PRINCIPLES OF ISLAMISM; OR, A LECTURE ON THE DERVICHES. Article 4
MASONIC NOTES AND QUERIES. Article 7
CORRESPONDENCE. Article 12
COLONIAL BOARDS OF GENERAL PURPOSES. Article 12
THE BOYS' SCHOOL. Article 12
MASONIC CHARITY. Article 12
THE MASONIC MIRROR. Article 13
METROPOLITAN. Article 13
PROVINCIAL. Article 13
INDIA. Article 16
PUBLIC AMUSEMENTS. Article 17
THE WEEK. Article 18
TO CORRESPONDENTS. Article 20
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software.

Masonic Notes And Queries.

KNIGHTS HOSPITALLERS . [ We transfer to our columns , from Notes and Queries , another interesting paper on this subject ] : — " I shall take advantage of a personal appeal , addressed to me hy your correspondent AN OBSERVER , to express my great disappointment that the strictures of HISTORICUS , SCRUTATOR , ancl others , have failed to draw from the

Society calling themselves the "Illustrious and Sovereign Order of Knights Hospitallers of St . John of Jerusalem , Anglia , " any tangible proof or evidence of the justice of their claim to be considered a legitimate branch of the famous Order , whose title and attributes they have assumed . MAJOR POUTER and AUTIQUABIUS , in taking up the gauntlet , have indeed declaimed in lofcy

language , but have produced nothing in support of their cause beyond what their Synoptical Sketch has previously put forward ; with what amount of claim to credit , HISTORICUS and SCBUTATOII have sufficiently demonstrated . MAJOR PORTER , in his reply to HISTOBICUS , has not condescended to enlighten us on the reasons that induced him to change his opinion of the legitimacy of the

soi-disant Langne of England expressed in the History of the Knights of Malta .. He considers it enough for us to know , that , although an opinion adverse to their claims did once prevail in his mind , yet , having further considered the subject and held converse with some leading members of the Langue , he had become so satisfied with the justice of those claims as to enroll himself

a member of the Society ; and even make amends , in the second edition of his work , for untoward remarks regarding them expressed in the first , & c . With your permission I will explain , as briefly as possible , why I feel so much disappointed that the gallant MAJOR has not been more explicit and communicative on the subject . In the year 1858 , the Langue did me the honour to nominate me their Commissioner , to lay before the Lieutenant of this Magistery and Sacred Council of the

Order of St . John , in Rome , an application on their part for some recognition by tho supreme authority of the Order . I was , at the same time , presented with a copy of the Synoptical Sketch , aud instructed b } " - the Grand Secretary to consider it a text-book for general reference ; and a vade-mecum , from whence to g lean all the information concerning the Langue and its claims that I might

require in dealing with the S . Council . In the course of my diplomatic doings I was frequently questioned as to the antecedents of the Langue , and more especially as to the authority on which their pretensions to be considered legitimate were founded . Being totally ignorant of everything concerning the body of which I was the representative , and finding the Synoptical Sketch quite

insufficient to furnish any satisfactory reply , either to myself or to my interrogators , I was driven in my perplexity to apply to the late Sir Richard Broun , the Grand Secretary of the Langue , as well as other and distinguished members of that fraternity , for some evidence and A'ouchers for their claims more respectable than what I coulcl derive from the brochure above mentioned . Sir

Richard ' s reply may be thus condensed : —He had no proofs to produce , and despaired of procuring me any ; that from 1835 to 1858 , he had been trying to make himself acquainted with the earl y history of the Langue , but without success ; that after tbe death of the Grand Prior Sir Robert Peat , in 1837 , he ( Sir R . B . ) discovered that tho documents connected with the revival of the

Langue were scattered about in many hands , and , as he feared , for the most part lost or destroyed ; that possibly some might be in possession of the family of the " Agent General" employed by the ( soi-disant ) French Capitular Commission , viz ., a tailor , named Currie : some , again , had passed away with the late Mr . B ., ci-dwant Grand Secretary ; and some might be , probably , found with a distinguished literary member of the Langue , & c * In short , I was given to understand that I must not expect

anything more presentable than what the Synoptical-Sketch- afforded . Your readers will , therefore , imagine how eagerly I looked for the proofs—so powerful , efficacious , and convincing in his case—that MAJOR PORTER had been so fortunate as to discover ; but which Sir Richard Broun ' s efforts for more than twenty years , with all his experience and advantages as Grand

Secretary and principal working member of the Langue , toback those efforts , had failed to bring to light . The negociations in which I had the honour to figure as Commissioner broke down entirely ; but I think the Languewill do me the justice to allow , from no fault of mine . I regretted the catastrophe then as I do now . As to one cause of tho failure , I will say a few words in reply to

the observation of ANTIQUARIUS : that " the Roman Council was quite as willing as the English Chapter ,, that an amalgamation of the respective bodies should take place . " AXTIQUARIUS is ignorant of the principal cause of such willingness . It was because the S . Council unhesitatingly received for truth the assertion , put forth with unblushing effrontery , passimin the Synoptical

, Sketch , and other publications of the Langue—endorsed , by the Grand Priors , men of note and position , who presided at their chapters , reiterated in their ' Declaratory Resolutions '—impressed upon me , their Commissioner , by repeated instructions from their Grand Secretary , as a powerful argument in my dealings with the S . Council in their behalf , and solemnly averred in an address to

the-S . Council itself , from the Chapter of the Langue , dated from ' St . John ' s Gate , Olerkemvell , 14 th July , 1858 ; ' and signed on the part of that Society by Dr . James Burnes , 'Preceptor of Scotland , ' & c , President ; Sir Richard Bourn , Bart ., ' Grand Secretary ; ' Thomas Troughear Williams , ' Knight of the Golden Spur , Count of the Lateran , Chancellor , Grand Cross of St . John of Jerusalem ; ' J . A . AVilson , 'Knight of the Legion of Honour ,

Knight of the Golden Spur , Grand Cross of St . John of Jerusalem , Commendator of Quenyngton , and Sub-prior of Clerkenwell : ' lhat the lapsed corporation of the 4 th and hth Philip and Mary had been solemnly revived , and that the English Langue had been legally constituted a corporate body by certain oaths , de fideli administratione , taken , before Sir Thomas Denman , Lord Chief Justice of

England , in- open court , b y Sir Robert Peat , as Grand Trim ; $ fc , fyc . I will hero candidly confess , that my knowledge of the law of lapsed corporations was not sufficiently profound to detect the absurdity of this audacious statement ; and it may easily be imagined that the information on the subject possessed by the German and Italian commanders , composing the S . Councilwas not superior

, to mine ; so , for reasons that in no way concern the present discussion , they were for a while disposed to look favourably upon the proposal . * However , shortly after the negociation commenced , the magisterial secretary was deputed to visit England to inquire into thatand other pleas advanced by the League , as claims for recognition ; and the unhappy result was , that

immediately on the return of the secretary to Rome , the negociation itself came to an abrupt termination . I have had many opportunities afforded me of examining the records , preserved in the Cbancellerie of the Order at Rome , that concern the appointment of the famous Commission of Paris ; its rise , labours , decline , and final extinction , with other documentary evidence , fully

bearing out the account given of it by your correspondents HISTOBICUS and SCRUTATOR . It is a curious fact , not mentioned by any of your correspondents , but which alone would be sufficient to nullify all the acts of the soi-disant Capitular Commission to whom the Langue owes its existence , that there was not a single Knight of Justice , with one unfortunate exception , and but an insignificant number of Knights of Devotion and Grace , among those who declared themselves a permanent Cotn-

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